Gas Price Heat Maps

Message Forum - Read Message

Category: Fuel Economy > Topics	Add to favorite topics Post New Topic

Author	Topic: Using HHO for better mileage	Topic is locked Back to Topics

jameshamel Rookie Author New Hampshire Posts:2 Points:445 Joined:Oct 2007	Message Posted: Oct 27, 2007 4:53:31 PM Ignore jameshamel Report Abuse Hello all, first post here. I am curious to know if anyone is using HHO to get better mileage, and if so what type of vehicle and increased performance are you getting? For those that do not know what HHO is I suggest a YouTube search for "HHO". John Aarons (Hydrogen Tap) shows the best way to build the HHO Generator, and Magdrive has some interesting results on his units. Also, you can google "stan meyers water car" for a few videos that are interesting.

jameshamel

Rookie Author
New Hampshire

Posts:2
Points:445
Joined:Oct 2007

Message Posted: Oct 27, 2007 4:53:31 PM

Ignore jameshamel Report Abuse

Hello all, first post here.

I am curious to know if anyone is using HHO to get better mileage, and if so what type of vehicle and increased performance are you getting?

For those that do not know what HHO is I suggest a YouTube search for "HHO".
John Aarons (Hydrogen Tap) shows the best way to build the HHO Generator, and Magdrive has some interesting results on his units.

Also, you can google "stan meyers water car" for a few videos that are interesting.

REPLIES (newest first)

First

Next Last

oilpan4 Champion Author Virginia Posts:7,147 Points:238,480 Joined:Jul 2006	Message Posted: Dec 21, 2007 1:22:33 AM Ignore oilpan4 Report Abuse There is no way to economicly make hydrogen for fuel. Most of the power used for electrolysis is just going to end up wasted as heat. We run propane on diesels because propane is cheaper than diesel fuel most of the year. When you compare the BTU's it takes to go 100 miles with straight diesel with the BTUs it takes to go 100 miles using propane and diesel you come up with around 3% less total BTUs used. Its so not worth it, the kits I have seen cost form $250 to $7000, you can buy a lot of gas with that money. There is no way you can boost the fuel efficiency of an internal combustion engine with out a lot of vehicle modification. Like using a hybrid assisted drive system.
transportcaptan Rookie Author Toronto Posts:26 Points:1,440 Joined:Nov 2007	Message Posted: Dec 20, 2007 10:34:24 AM Ignore transportcaptan Report Abuse So it's not really worth the time and money to purchase a conversion kit?
oilpan4 Champion Author Virginia Posts:7,147 Points:238,480 Joined:Jul 2006	Message Posted: Dec 20, 2007 3:12:15 AM Ignore oilpan4 Report Abuse "Is there any physical proof, not just talk to proove that it actually works"? Nope. Hydrogen may make gasoline combustion more efficient the same way propane fumigation makes diesel engines more efficient. Both fuels are gaseous and you don't have to be concerned with atomization.
transportcaptan Rookie Author Toronto Posts:26 Points:1,440 Joined:Nov 2007	Message Posted: Dec 19, 2007 10:41:36 PM Ignore transportcaptan Report Abuse Gabilondo sorry, I haven't been around much lately. When I posted the link to the website posting I didn't have a vehicle, so couldn't install anything. I still don't have a vehicle, my van hasn't been replaced yet. The article had just been posted, and it was the first I'd heard of HHO technology, and seeing it for the first time, I thought maybe it actually worked. Now I'm not so sure. Take a look at this thread here, http://www.aboutmyplanet.com/community/other-energy/40-cars-running-water.html#post10202 there are mixed reviews and thoughts on HHO technology.
transportcaptan Rookie Author Toronto Posts:26 Points:1,440 Joined:Nov 2007	Message Posted: Dec 19, 2007 10:34:03 PM Ignore transportcaptan Report Abuse I'm hearing now that HHO technology is a waste of time and money. Is there any physical proof, not just talk to proove that it actually works?
CaptSquid Champion Author Billings Posts:19,443 Points:1,997,270 Joined:Apr 2004	Message Posted: Dec 10, 2007 4:33:26 PM Ignore CaptSquid Report Abuse lmn8r - Where is Lake Hurst, NJ? I've looked all over for a lake named Hurst. But I DO know of NAS (now NAES) Lakehurst, NJ. The hydrogen burned off rather quickly. It was the covering that provided the real fuel - aluminized rubber - the same stuff in the SRBs the Shuttle uses. Hydrogen got a bad rap from that incident. [Edited by: CaptSquid at 12/10/2007 4:35:28 PM EST]
HotRod10 Champion Author Wyoming Posts:1,337 Points:25,510 Joined:Oct 2006	Message Posted: Dec 10, 2007 1:27:36 PM Ignore HotRod10 Report Abuse So the hydrogen makes the gasoline burn more efficiently? I'd really like to know that works.
Shockjock1961 Champion Author Illinois Posts:10,365 Points:1,048,210 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: Dec 9, 2007 1:43:16 PM Ignore Shockjock1961 Report Abuse "The hydrogen isn't really hydrogen but in fact 2 isotopes of hydrogen called Deuterium and Trillium." If it's an isotope IT IS hydrogen.
jwduke1 Champion Author Iowa Posts:10,290 Points:2,016,580 Joined:Apr 2004	Message Posted: Dec 9, 2007 1:09:49 PM Ignore jwduke1 Report Abuse Sounds like "snake oil".........
ldheinz Champion Author Chicago Posts:9,513 Points:1,235,045 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: Dec 9, 2007 1:03:42 PM Ignore ldheinz Report Abuse The purpose of devices such as this are to improve combustion efficiency, not to add more energy to the system. I don't know about this particular one, but they can work if the circumstances are right.
oilpan4 Champion Author Virginia Posts:7,147 Points:238,480 Joined:Jul 2006	Message Posted: Dec 9, 2007 12:35:20 PM Ignore oilpan4 Report Abuse "Even with an atomic bomb you never get more energy out of a closed system then the system already contains. With an atomic bomb you are releasing not chemical bonds, but rather nuclear bonds that come from breaking weak nuclear forces". And to add to that the hydrogen in hydrogen bombs comes form Lithium, it woulnd't work if they used hydrogen gas. The hydrogen isn't really hydrogen but in fact 2 isotopes of hydrogen called Deuterium and Trillium.
lmn8r Veteran Author Tennessee Posts:290 Points:203,855 Joined:Mar 2005	Message Posted: Dec 9, 2007 1:58:22 AM Ignore lmn8r Report Abuse I've read about several of the auto manufacturers and even some college engineering groups testing hydrogen cars. But hydrogen has a minor draw back. We thought the Pinto's in the seventies was bad. Do you remember Lake Hurst NJ? Does anyone remember Jack Roush's experimental Mustang about ten years ago? Was it Hydrogen or Propane? I know that, that was one hybrid I wouldn't be ashamed to be seen in!
Shockjock1961 Champion Author Illinois Posts:10,365 Points:1,048,210 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: Dec 8, 2007 10:30:45 PM Ignore Shockjock1961 Report Abuse "I'm glad Einstein didn't give up his pursuits of new knowledge based on the foregone conclusion that you can't get more energy out than what you put in." Even with an atomic bomb you never get more energy out of a closed system then the system already contains. With an atomic bomb you are releasing not chemical bonds, but rather nuclear bonds that come from breaking weak nuclear forces. These bonds were created when the matter was created, and you can get no more energy out of these bonds then it took to create these bonds originally. Einstein never claimed you could get energy from nothing... That being said, you can't get more energy out of chemical bonds then it took to create them (just like nuclear bonds). When you break water molecules apart the BEST you can hope for when you recombine them is the equivalent energy back. You will NEVER get more, and almost ALWAYS get less...
oilpan4 Champion Author Virginia Posts:7,147 Points:238,480 Joined:Jul 2006	Message Posted: Dec 8, 2007 6:53:37 PM Ignore oilpan4 Report Abuse Lean running water injected engines are nothing new. The reason they never caugh on was if your water tank ran out of water and you kept driving you would burn the valves and valve seats ruining the cylinder head.
Darbs Rookie Author Vancouver Posts:27 Points:18,840 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Dec 8, 2007 5:05:29 PM Ignore Darbs Report Abuse My dad used to have a 1941 Dodge in which he installed a "water carburettor"...a simple device with two impellers in it that was mounted under the carb. It sucked air through a number of small ports on the side and then mixed it with water supplied from a two gallon tank mounted under the hood. With this he was able to average more than 30 miles per gallon. BTW. the engine in the Dodge was a flat-head 6.
scmx Rookie Author Chicago Posts:1 Points:120 Joined:Dec 2007	Message Posted: Dec 8, 2007 3:32:21 PM Ignore scmx Report Abuse As stated by HotRod10: "You NEVER get more energy out of a system than what you put into it." I wonder how much energy goes into a hydrogen bomb compared to the energy that comes out of it? I suppose if you count the energy expended by all the atomic scientists plus all the energy expended by the workers walking back and forth on coffee breaks plus hauling the items to/from the facility, etc..., maybe they do put in more energy than what comes out. I'm hesitant to say something is impossible until I've checked it out personally - regardless of whether or not it flies in the face of accepted scientific wisdom. I'm glad Einstein didn't give up his pursuits of new knowledge based on the foregone conclusion that you can't get more energy out than what you put in. Back on topic... If you say the car's alternator consumes more energy than what you get out of the "HHO gas", you might consider that most of that energy will be expended anyway because the alternator is always turning whether you need it or not. It just takes a bit more power to generate the additional current. You would need to measure exactly the gasoline needed to create that extra power and somehow put that against the altered efficiency or whatever may change in the combustion cycle. Maybe it isn't just the burning of the "HHO gas". Maybe the new mixture makes the gasoline explode with more efficiency... who knows? The standard scientific approach says "I know you can't get more out than what you put in - so it must be a scam" Remember, they even shut down the patent department once because "everything has now been invented that could ever be invented". I'm probably gullible enough to build one of these things just to see if the mpg changes at all. I only arrived at this forum after reading for several hours on the subject, trying also to find if anyone had actually invested the time and effort to see if this thing is a scam.
Ramaniac Champion Author St. Louis Posts:9,155 Points:1,536,015 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Nov 29, 2007 12:38:16 PM Ignore Ramaniac Report Abuse Gabilondo: I have read this entire site, and want to commend you on your respect of others. You just want to know if it works and you are not getting an answer. I do not believe you will. You have however shown a level of grace and maturity that is impressive. Hydrogen is out. The reason has to to with the membranes and some sort of chromium or something, I forgot. Propane...now that is something to look into. They are making these systems for diesel trucks right now. Get used to it. In 100 years we will still be using cars with gasoline. That is unless someone invents a super battery. The problem we see here is the 'short answer'. They nail it and go. [Edited by: Ramaniac at 11/29/2007 12:40:12 PM EST]
Gabilondo Champion Author New Mexico Posts:3,869 Points:823,025 Joined:May 2007	Message Posted: Nov 29, 2007 7:44:03 AM Ignore Gabilondo Report Abuse transportcaptan, yes or no, have you installed this device yet?
srs_49 Champion Author Baltimore Posts:4,235 Points:459,520 Joined:Feb 2006	Message Posted: Nov 26, 2007 7:04:30 AM Ignore srs_49 Report Abuse These claims just don't pass the reasonableness test.
CaptSquid Champion Author Billings Posts:19,443 Points:1,997,270 Joined:Apr 2004	Message Posted: Nov 26, 2007 6:39:39 AM Ignore CaptSquid Report Abuse Anything on YouTube leaves me wary.
airduct Champion Author Florida Posts:10,075 Points:250,095 Joined:May 2005	Message Posted: Nov 25, 2007 1:30:47 PM Ignore airduct Report Abuse transportcaptan -- >>I've been working for that environmental website for over a year. << Enough said.
hjz Champion Author Bridgeport Posts:8,013 Points:1,559,715 Joined:Dec 2004	Message Posted: Nov 25, 2007 8:43:55 AM Ignore hjz Report Abuse why did it take all this time?
Gabilondo Champion Author New Mexico Posts:3,869 Points:823,025 Joined:May 2007	Message Posted: Nov 25, 2007 8:25:47 AM Ignore Gabilondo Report Abuse transportcaptan, have you put it on your vehicle/s yet??
transportcaptan Rookie Author Toronto Posts:26 Points:1,440 Joined:Nov 2007	Message Posted: Nov 21, 2007 9:44:15 PM Ignore transportcaptan Report Abuse Scroll down past the puny ads to find the article. I work for the site that posted that article, daily writing is part of the site. You tell the owner of that site that it's nothing but ads and see what he says. I care about the environment and it's why I posted the link I did. I've been working for that environmental website for over a year.
oilpan4 Champion Author Virginia Posts:7,147 Points:238,480 Joined:Jul 2006	Message Posted: Nov 21, 2007 6:00:02 PM Ignore oilpan4 Report Abuse If I find any thing that works I'll post it on here. So only things that you can "add" to a car that have shown some result to me are Acetone in a carburated gasoline engine and synthetic oil (used in my diesel). The best thing you can do by far is replace spark plugs and wires (if you have them). Replacing spark plugs all ways nets me about +2mpg for 2-3 tanks. My guess is newer and cleaner running cars will see the benefit much longer then me. But every one should know replacing old spark plugs gets you more mpg, Right?
BUSSY Champion Author Dallas Posts:4,892 Points:739,780 Joined:Oct 2006	Message Posted: Nov 21, 2007 3:50:46 PM Ignore BUSSY Report Abuse Another worthless post.....join my ignore file
BUSSY Champion Author Dallas Posts:4,892 Points:739,780 Joined:Oct 2006	Message Posted: Nov 21, 2007 3:50:16 PM Ignore BUSSY Report Abuse Another worthless posts.....join my ignore file
HotRod10 Champion Author Wyoming Posts:1,337 Points:25,510 Joined:Oct 2006	Message Posted: Nov 21, 2007 3:18:02 PM Ignore HotRod10 Report Abuse I agree with Oilpan4, a basic understanding of thermodynamics will tell you all you need to know. You NEVER get more energy out of a system than what you put into it. It always takes more energy to separate hydrogen from oxygen (electrolysis) than you get back when recombining them (combustion).
airduct Champion Author Florida Posts:10,075 Points:250,095 Joined:May 2005	Message Posted: Nov 21, 2007 10:19:26 AM Ignore airduct Report Abuse Articles? These are ADVERTISEMENTS!!! They are trying to sell this stuff to you! Christmas in coming- HHO HHO HHO!
hjz Champion Author Bridgeport Posts:8,013 Points:1,559,715 Joined:Dec 2004	Message Posted: Nov 21, 2007 9:22:07 AM Ignore hjz Report Abuse I dont see it around!
OilerFan Champion Author Tulsa Posts:8,137 Points:1,497,920 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Nov 21, 2007 8:16:28 AM Ignore OilerFan Report Abuse yes. I'd like to know about real results, not what an article says or what the guy selling it says.
Gabilondo Champion Author New Mexico Posts:3,869 Points:823,025 Joined:May 2007	Message Posted: Nov 21, 2007 7:44:51 AM Ignore Gabilondo Report Abuse Okay, articles are fine, but which one of you posters out there has actually paid for this thing and have it on your vehicle??
oilpan4 Champion Author Virginia Posts:7,147 Points:238,480 Joined:Jul 2006	Message Posted: Nov 21, 2007 12:25:22 AM Ignore oilpan4 Report Abuse Its not a hoax, it just defies a few thermodynamic laws and works as advertised.
transportcaptan Rookie Author Toronto Posts:26 Points:1,440 Joined:Nov 2007	Message Posted: Nov 20, 2007 11:37:17 PM Ignore transportcaptan Report Abuse Please read this article and watch the video. This is not a hoax according to this very reliable Canadian site. http://www.aboutmyplanet.com/videos/company-finds-a-way-to-run-cars-on-water/
DustyTruck Sophomore Author Orange County Posts:105 Points:28,950 Joined:Feb 2004	Message Posted: Nov 18, 2007 7:25:51 PM Ignore DustyTruck Report Abuse HHO? I kinda like HOH better - goes down easier. HA
Gabilondo Champion Author New Mexico Posts:3,869 Points:823,025 Joined:May 2007	Message Posted: Nov 18, 2007 6:27:35 PM Ignore Gabilondo Report Abuse Good joke, huh!?
hjz Champion Author Bridgeport Posts:8,013 Points:1,559,715 Joined:Dec 2004	Message Posted: Nov 18, 2007 9:34:43 AM Ignore hjz Report Abuse maybe you mean ho ho ho! Santa
SE3.5 Champion Author Indianapolis Posts:10,185 Points:1,979,450 Joined:May 2004	Message Posted: Nov 18, 2007 8:31:19 AM Ignore SE3.5 Report Abuse HHO/H2O/water. LOL
jmg144 Champion Author Maryland Posts:6,621 Points:1,827,645 Joined:Jul 2004	Message Posted: Nov 17, 2007 8:03:16 PM Ignore jmg144 Report Abuse NH is pulling our leg?
Gabilondo Champion Author New Mexico Posts:3,869 Points:823,025 Joined:May 2007	Message Posted: Nov 17, 2007 10:26:58 AM Ignore Gabilondo Report Abuse Dead topic in my eyes.
nrg2004 Champion Author Austin Posts:2,212 Points:669,090 Joined:Mar 2004	Message Posted: Nov 15, 2007 12:04:48 PM Ignore nrg2004 Report Abuse My wife always likes to carry some HHO in the car, and I think the HHO she brings from the house is a lot better than the HHO that you can buy at the convenience store. The 20 oz. HHO is a bit too big, the half liter is just about right. What I do not like though is all the half empty HHO bottles that I find after a trip.
UP-Skier Champion Author Twin Cities Posts:9,262 Points:2,168,170 Joined:Oct 2002	Message Posted: Nov 12, 2007 7:24:14 PM Ignore UP-Skier Report Abuse HHO = H2O = water.
chemist74 Champion Author Cleveland Posts:8,795 Points:1,482,755 Joined:Apr 2005	Message Posted: Nov 12, 2007 9:33:44 AM Ignore chemist74 Report Abuse Some people are stupid enough to fall for anything. Scam artists depend on it.
oilpan4 Champion Author Virginia Posts:7,147 Points:238,480 Joined:Jul 2006	Message Posted: Nov 12, 2007 12:45:21 AM Ignore oilpan4 Report Abuse I was interested but skeptical at first and all it turned out be was "one big infomercial". Hydrogen gadgets are junk. Nitrogen tires improving fuel economy is a lie. Acetone may not improve fuel economy for every one but I have seen it do other things.
Gabilondo Champion Author New Mexico Posts:3,869 Points:823,025 Joined:May 2007	Message Posted: Nov 11, 2007 5:51:06 PM Ignore Gabilondo Report Abuse oilpan4, I agree with your assumptions. I keep asking, but noone is giving out real-world information. It appears to be one big infomercial.
oilpan4 Champion Author Virginia Posts:7,147 Points:238,480 Joined:Jul 2006	Message Posted: Nov 11, 2007 11:56:53 AM Ignore oilpan4 Report Abuse 500ml/min is nothing even for a 4 cylinder at idle. How do you know it works if you have not completed it?
thatguyonfire Rookie Author Trenton Posts:1 Points:420 Joined:Nov 2007	Message Posted: Nov 11, 2007 10:37:20 AM Ignore thatguyonfire Report Abuse Not yet but I am in the process of making my own HHO generator. And yes it does work. The process of extracting HHO has been around for over 100 years. This process is being used as cutting torches around the world. It will never be popular with car manufactures because of their ties with the oil companies. But to answer your question, no I havent bought one and have not completed mine yet but as a mechanic, I dont see why buying one wouldnt work. The only think that you want to check first is how much HHO a minute does the generator produce. It should produce at least 500ml a minute. If you have a bigger engine, you will need more HHO. You should also educate yourself on how an engine works too because you may need to alter your O2 sensor output to get the best MPG with the HHO unit. Good luck and let us know if you get one.
Gabilondo Champion Author New Mexico Posts:3,869 Points:823,025 Joined:May 2007	Message Posted: Nov 9, 2007 7:59:10 AM Ignore Gabilondo Report Abuse I'll put this in the category with the "tornado" and the "magnet."
oilpan4 Champion Author Virginia Posts:7,147 Points:238,480 Joined:Jul 2006	Message Posted: Nov 8, 2007 6:59:56 PM Ignore oilpan4 Report Abuse "The web site disclaims any responsibility for the accuracy of the content of this web site". That tells me every thing I need to know.
bluebird1 Champion Author Toronto Posts:9,652 Points:1,938,195 Joined:May 2004	Message Posted: Nov 8, 2007 10:21:34 AM Ignore bluebird1 Report Abuse I'd say stop looking for the 'Holy Grail' type solutions (which is what so many rip-offs prey on) and start with the basics, well tuned car, slightly topped up tire pressure, reduce weight & change wasteful driving habits (this was the greatest gain for me) by smoother/anticipated driving. Since the web site disclaims any responsibility for the accuracy, I'd tend to fit it into the 'not worth it' category. Sure, there are some things that can marginally improve mpg...but there is no payback i.e. too expensive.