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paradoxmaker All-Star Author Fort Worth Posts:585 Points:169,720 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Jan 23, 2006 6:14:01 PM Ignore paradoxmaker Report Abuse Why is it that almost anytime disscusions abot not beliving in god come up the most hateful and rude statments seem to come from the ones who "belive". It always amazes me that the most tolerant people in religous disscusions seem to either be the non belivers (like me) or people of eastern religions (Buddism, Hindu, ect...). But you insult god, or say you dont belive in god and then the gloves are off. I thought most religons preach tolerance of others views??????

paradoxmaker

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Fort Worth

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Message Posted: Jan 23, 2006 6:14:01 PM

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Why is it that almost anytime disscusions abot not beliving in god come up the most hateful and rude statments seem to come from the ones who "belive".

It always amazes me that the most tolerant people in religous disscusions seem to either be the non belivers (like me) or people of eastern religions (Buddism, Hindu, ect...). But you insult god, or say you dont belive in god and then the gloves are off. I thought most religons preach tolerance of others views??????

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ldheinz Champion Author Chicago Posts:19,007 Points:2,354,870 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: Sep 15, 2008 1:31:05 AM Ignore ldheinz Report Abuse I'm sorry, alp, that you have such racist, sexist and religion-based stereotypes regarding Republicans. I recently joined my local Republican organization as a precinct captain, and at meetings I ofter share a table with Sikh and Moslem precinct captains (and friends), and my position was previously held by a Hispanic woman who has advanced to the county board. The local organization is about 30% Hispanic, matching the numbers of the local community. Many women hold major offices in township and county government. At fundraisers, the Teamsters local not only buys multiple tables for their members, but are active workers, seating people and helping in various other ways. I myself am an active atheist, and they don't seem to mind me, either. I have never heard a comment about trying to keep anyone "down", except perhaps Democrats. It has been my experience that the "groupism" that I described before is done in false accusations by Democrats appealing to various groups on racist, sexist, or other similar grounds, instead of working to make a government that is efficient, effective and inclusive of the entire community.
alp Champion Author Portland Posts:17,872 Points:3,482,695 Joined:Feb 2003	Message Posted: Sep 14, 2008 1:14:42 PM Ignore alp Report Abuse Idheinz, How you can call the right which is intolerant of gays, atheists, Muslims and so forth inclusive I can not understand. I don't even understand your term "groupism" and while I am considered fairly "rich" I don't think it's a sustainable concept to try and make it widespread. What would be more ethical would be to make sure that the less well off are at least given a chance to succeed to the best of their abilities. And I could make the point the right needs to keep people ignorant to maintain their base. As long as folks believe that policies that favor the rich will eventually favor the voters who are poor, the rich will benefit and the poor will not. That's why the nation is so much more divided into the haves and the have-nots than ever before.
ldheinz Champion Author Chicago Posts:19,007 Points:2,354,870 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: Sep 14, 2008 12:15:08 PM Ignore ldheinz Report Abuse No, alp, actually the reverse is true. I find the right to be far more inclusive than the left. I find that the left is more concerned with groupism, whereas the right is concerned with money. I think that the best way of ending bigotry is for everyone to get rich. The right want this, and the left doesn't. The left has a conflict of interest here, needing to keep people poor to keep their power base intact. I'll agree with your second statement, though.
alp Champion Author Portland Posts:17,872 Points:3,482,695 Joined:Feb 2003	Message Posted: Sep 14, 2008 4:25:05 AM Ignore alp Report Abuse The acceptance of other's beliefs is the one of the BIG difference between political parties. For the most part the right is intolerant of others who may believe differently than they do, and want to run government for their belief system. The left is far more tolerant of non-believers, other religions and beliefs as long as they are non-violent. There's a reason that of the 50 plus active religions that were in ancient Rome that the Christians were singled out for persecution - and that was because they insisted they were correct and all others were wrong. For a religion that is supposedly based on love and care for others, Christianity as it is practiced is very mean to those who do not chose to follow what they see as the only true path.
BadHabitsLounge Rookie Author Florida Posts:45 Points:1,263,250 Joined:Sep 2008	Message Posted: Sep 13, 2008 9:41:27 PM Ignore BadHabitsLounge Report Abuse I feel the trouble starts with the word “tolerance.” It implies a negative connotation. “Your disbelief in god scares me, but I will put up with you anyway.” I suggest the word “tolerance” should always be replaced with the word “acceptance.” The word “acceptance” implies a hug. When people hug one another it’s difficult to exchange bitter words! - - Bright regards - - Larry
ldheinz Champion Author Chicago Posts:19,007 Points:2,354,870 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: Sep 12, 2008 2:49:39 PM Ignore ldheinz Report Abuse The amazing thing about that South Park episode is that it appeared for the first time 8 days after the Bush/Gore election fiasco started. They saw the problem, wrote the script, and finished the animation in a week. Full Disclosure: I'm an elected Republican. However, I lean heavily towards Libertarian in my views.
ShanC Champion Author Rochester Posts:12,091 Points:405,785 Joined:Mar 2006	Message Posted: Sep 11, 2008 8:25:09 PM Ignore ShanC Report Abuse I agree about politics. The more time I spend reading that category, the more I am turned off to politics. I really do not even care one bit who wins this next election now. Anyone ever watch the South Park episode about voting?
ldheinz Champion Author Chicago Posts:19,007 Points:2,354,870 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: Aug 20, 2008 5:09:26 AM Ignore ldheinz Report Abuse I think that the statement is a straw man, as it misstates the opposing position in order to counter it. Some religious people think that since they take essential parts of their life on faith, without proof, that it is wrong for others not to behave the same way. They make fun of "other" people, as they can't face questioning their own beliefs. After all, their beliefs are the ones that they've had since childhood, when they couldn't question anything, and to question their own beliefs now would throw their entire lives into a uproar. I believe in the most likely explanation of things, changing my opinion as the evidence changes. So far, I see no convincing evidence that "god" is anything other than wishful thinking by superstitious simpletons.
ShanC Champion Author Rochester Posts:12,091 Points:405,785 Joined:Mar 2006	Message Posted: Aug 19, 2008 10:55:15 PM Ignore ShanC Report Abuse Back on topic, I just saw this in another category: "Believing in nothing sounds like someone having an empty brain. It is impossible to believe in nothing." While the first sentence is simply insulting, it demonstrates (along with the second sentence) a level of misunderstanding and ignorance. ldheinz, you are an atheist. Do you "believe in nothing"? (Humorous: In a way, you view all theists as believing in nothing.)
ShanC Champion Author Rochester Posts:12,091 Points:405,785 Joined:Mar 2006	Message Posted: Aug 19, 2008 9:31:07 PM Ignore ShanC Report Abuse >Believe at some point in your life, there will be something that will cause >you to rethink your position on God and you will find a Happiness that you >would have never guessed would ever happen. That already DID happen for me, but there was no one "something". With regard to "finding religion" I have noticed that it is almost always "something" that causes people to change their belief. Often it is a tragic event, such as near-death or the death of someone else. Often it is because their life was in such a bad state - alcoholism, drugs, etc.
ldheinz Champion Author Chicago Posts:19,007 Points:2,354,870 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: Aug 10, 2008 12:00:41 PM Ignore ldheinz Report Abuse That's what they all say, qaqcsup.
qaqcsup Champion Author Michigan Posts:9,106 Points:1,241,190 Joined:Jun 2008	Message Posted: Aug 9, 2008 3:41:00 PM Ignore qaqcsup Report Abuse I do not believe that those people are truly Born Agains. The Church that they attend may tell them that. But, The Bible would say otherwise. And so would Jesus. I have also been a victim of these same groups.
ldheinz Champion Author Chicago Posts:19,007 Points:2,354,870 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: Aug 9, 2008 3:24:08 PM Ignore ldheinz Report Abuse qaqcsup, the most rude people I've met on the subject have been "born again" christians. The other kind aren't so insistent that I agree with them, but the "born again"s are often downright nasty about it, with threats of hell and such.
qaqcsup Champion Author Michigan Posts:9,106 Points:1,241,190 Joined:Jun 2008	Message Posted: Aug 9, 2008 2:14:59 PM Ignore qaqcsup Report Abuse Why are belivers so rude? there are differences spelled out in the Bible, as to what a believer is. A true believer does not require visualization to believe. A true believer does not judge people as best they can. A true believer is called a BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN. A true believer's life is based on 3 things, They share the Love God has shown them, They have a Faith that cannot be consumed, and They are Charitible with all they have. A true believer is not required to attend a church which was built by man. As for rudeness, If someone comes up to you and pronounces themselves a christian and are rude to you. Reply with this, Jesus said, "Judge not lest ye be judged". For the only way to not judge is to have an opened mind. If any person is rude, it is beacause they have closed their mind, which also goes against the teachings of the Bible. However, I as a Born again Christian. Believe at some point in your life, there will be something that will cause you to rethink your position on God and you will find a Happiness that you would have never guessed would ever happen.
REKEY Champion Author South Carolina Posts:8,559 Points:1,695,415 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: Aug 8, 2008 10:56:53 PM Ignore REKEY Report Abuse Because they cannot believe that something else could exist.
ldheinz Champion Author Chicago Posts:19,007 Points:2,354,870 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: Jul 22, 2008 7:23:53 AM Ignore ldheinz Report Abuse I've just cautioned people to be careful with spelling when they create a new topic, as not to enshrine their spelling errors forever.
bigtrevor Champion Author Grand Rapids Posts:4,383 Points:908,295 Joined:Nov 2007	Message Posted: Jul 20, 2008 4:32:04 PM Ignore bigtrevor Report Abuse Yeah, I noticed it a while back. I thought about bringing it up in the Talk Back to Us! forum, but meh.
malcm Champion Author Los Angeles Posts:2,988 Points:1,276,080 Joined:Dec 2003	Message Posted: Jul 20, 2008 2:34:50 AM Ignore malcm Report Abuse Incidentally, has anyone noticed the spelling error in this CATEGORY listing!? Yeah, I know - so what?
malcm Champion Author Los Angeles Posts:2,988 Points:1,276,080 Joined:Dec 2003	Message Posted: Jul 19, 2008 10:01:15 PM Ignore malcm Report Abuse johnsell: Initially, the pure chance of a "pollywog" energetically swimming upstream, beating the others to the egg. Similar, I guess, to that wonderful scene in Woody Allen's pic, "All you wanted to know about sex," etc. All considered, I've had a blast & hope for a few more years!
johnsell Champion Author Portland Posts:19,718 Points:3,308,660 Joined:Jan 2004	Message Posted: Jul 19, 2008 2:43:33 PM Ignore johnsell Report Abuse malcm - I'm amused, as Paradoxmaker has never responded to his topic post since he started it in Jan 23 2006, but I'm sure he would appreciate the correction. Also idheinz is actually ldheinz FYI. So, if right and wrong are so subjective along with proven and unproven, what is your basis for living and surviving among your fellow man?
malcm Champion Author Los Angeles Posts:2,988 Points:1,276,080 Joined:Dec 2003	Message Posted: Jul 19, 2008 1:44:44 PM Ignore malcm Report Abuse idheinz: Right and wrong are subjective terms. How about proven & unproven? No, still subjective. Religious conviction is, I submit, an amorphous subject and open to wide interpretations. Paradoxmaker: What "most religions preach" varies widely, and deep emotions skews its adherence to suit the individual BELIEVER (let's at least get the spelling correct here!). Look, the immensity of our universe, and even the possibility of parallel universes, seem to indicate that possibilities re. "creation" are infinitudinous! No, don't look it up - it's an original. Peace and tolerance? So elusive.
ldheinz Champion Author Chicago Posts:19,007 Points:2,354,870 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: Jul 19, 2008 6:37:05 AM Ignore ldheinz Report Abuse So right and wrong don't enter into it? Just what's pleasant?
malcm Champion Author Los Angeles Posts:2,988 Points:1,276,080 Joined:Dec 2003	Message Posted: Jul 18, 2008 5:30:12 PM Ignore malcm Report Abuse Whatever works & doesn't hurt others.
ldheinz Champion Author Chicago Posts:19,007 Points:2,354,870 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: Jul 18, 2008 2:52:38 PM Ignore ldheinz Report Abuse So malcm, you agree with the old Robert Heinlein quotation that delusions are often functional?
malcm Champion Author Los Angeles Posts:2,988 Points:1,276,080 Joined:Dec 2003	Message Posted: Jul 18, 2008 2:43:23 PM Ignore malcm Report Abuse With so much daily tragedy affecting people wordwide, any comfort afforded by religion serves a good purpose. However, religious fanaticism which, over the centuries and continuing today in some parts of the world, is undeniably a serious problem, even leading to murder. Thankfully, North America is mostly free of this, including the GB posters here. [Edited by: malcm at 7/18/2008 2:45:41 PM EST]
sue509 Champion Author Illinois Posts:3,792 Points:596,820 Joined:May 2004	Message Posted: Jul 18, 2008 10:17:17 AM Ignore sue509 Report Abuse I agree with you bolfrey. As a true believer I also am not rude to non-believers. They have a right to their opinion and I have a right to mine. I don't attack someone for not believing in God but am attacked for believing in Him. My faith is strong.
bolfrey Sophomore Author Rochester Posts:206 Points:765,910 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: May 13, 2008 5:09:15 PM Ignore bolfrey Report Abuse As a believer, I would never be rude to someone who disagreed but acknowledge that many can be. I have also seen many rude atheists too so it goes both ways. I agree with other posters than insecurity is a primary factor. This seems to be true in no matter that persons beliefs are or what the subject of debate is.
ldheinz Champion Author Chicago Posts:19,007 Points:2,354,870 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: Apr 30, 2008 5:24:18 AM Ignore ldheinz Report Abuse Yes, I agree, spc. I think that the less secure someone is in their beliefs, the more strongly they object to any questioning of them.
spc Champion Author California Posts:1,052 Points:169,905 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Apr 29, 2008 3:40:10 PM Ignore spc Report Abuse Usually if someone is insecure in their views... they lash out at those that disagree... they fell threatened. Agnostic here.
ldheinz Champion Author Chicago Posts:19,007 Points:2,354,870 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: Apr 15, 2008 11:46:41 AM Ignore ldheinz Report Abuse I think that the vehement attackers are the ones that are unsure of their own beliefs, and the polite ones are secure and don't need to attack as badly.
davdan Rookie Author Columbus Posts:20 Points:655 Joined:Apr 2008	Message Posted: Apr 14, 2008 2:16:56 PM Ignore davdan Report Abuse thats a good question... Now, me, Im a beliver, i know God has been there for me when no one else has. but i too never understood why those who are "strong" believers get so offended...
Dad23 Champion Author Philadelphia Posts:5,000 Points:787,285 Joined:Sep 2006	Message Posted: Apr 8, 2008 1:28:30 PM Ignore Dad23 Report Abuse More power to you, Rob. I hope he wins his electoral seet come November. [Edited by: Dad23 at 4/8/2008 1:28:45 PM EST]
ldheinz Champion Author Chicago Posts:19,007 Points:2,354,870 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: Apr 8, 2008 11:02:55 AM Ignore ldheinz Report Abuse I'm from Illinois, and I'm aware of Sherman's work. He's an inspiration.
sgm4law Champion Author Maryland Posts:18,790 Points:2,375,705 Joined:Mar 2006	Message Posted: Apr 8, 2008 9:47:34 AM Ignore sgm4law Report Abuse Here's a great example of "You can't handle the truth!" in Illinois: State Representative yells at testifying atheist
Dad23 Champion Author Philadelphia Posts:5,000 Points:787,285 Joined:Sep 2006	Message Posted: Mar 30, 2008 10:44:33 AM Ignore Dad23 Report Abuse idheinz: Excellent comeback. I'll have to remember that. malcm: Thanks for the input. I'm not much of a reader, but I just might look that up. I too get a little agressive when discussing my non-religious beliefs with the believers. They do seem to be a bit pushy and I just stick by my guns and tell them to show me physical proof. When I cut up and blow away their "proof" they get even angrier and I start smiling. I can't help it. [Edited by: Dad23 at 3/30/2008 10:45:00 AM EST]
ldheinz Champion Author Chicago Posts:19,007 Points:2,354,870 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: Mar 30, 2008 9:02:17 AM Ignore ldheinz Report Abuse I think that the evangelicals often use bullying to get people to agree with them. When I see that I respond as aggressively, if not more so. One of my favorites is when I hear a derisive "So you think that you're descended from apes?" I respond "No, I think that YOU descended from apes. I think that I ASCENDED from apes."
malcm Champion Author Los Angeles Posts:2,988 Points:1,276,080 Joined:Dec 2003	Message Posted: Mar 28, 2008 6:03:26 PM Ignore malcm Report Abuse My 1st time here, so I've read thru the file - all the way back to a year ago. Our numbers seem to be few. BTW, have you read "God Is Not Great", by Christopher Hitchens? Good logic there! Some of the best since the long ago writings of Robert Ingersol.
malcm Champion Author Los Angeles Posts:2,988 Points:1,276,080 Joined:Dec 2003	Message Posted: Mar 28, 2008 5:52:11 PM Ignore malcm Report Abuse It may stem from your dropping the "E" from believe. They're sticklers on spelling, despite the variances in the bible. col.
ldheinz Champion Author Chicago Posts:19,007 Points:2,354,870 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: Mar 25, 2008 10:47:13 AM Ignore ldheinz Report Abuse I think that I sometimes use rather aggresive anti-religious comments as a counter to the evangelical approach of some religious people.
freedom27 Champion Author Calgary Posts:2,254 Points:282,350 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Mar 20, 2008 2:23:56 PM Ignore freedom27 Report Abuse There will be zealots in all religions or cultures. Unfortunately, the only ones you hear are the squeeky wheels.
Dad23 Champion Author Philadelphia Posts:5,000 Points:787,285 Joined:Sep 2006	Message Posted: May 27, 2007 12:47:41 PM Ignore Dad23 Report Abuse Has anyone seen the movie or read the book, "The DaVinci Code?" It was pretty good. Sorta like a action movie with some history and a little factual info behind it. The pope sent armies to kill people? Interesting. The christians omitted books from the bible because they weren't revelant? Hmmm.
johnsell Champion Author Portland Posts:19,718 Points:3,308,660 Joined:Jan 2004	Message Posted: May 27, 2007 9:58:13 AM Ignore johnsell Report Abuse If he calls I hope it isn't long distance........ [Edited by: johnsell at 5/27/2007 9:58:47 AM EST]
theco2 Champion Author Des Moines Posts:23,250 Points:3,373,500 Joined:Apr 2003	Message Posted: May 27, 2007 12:45:09 AM Ignore theco2 Report Abuse I wouldn't give my number out to my imaginary friends.
Rajah Champion Author Illinois Posts:7,553 Points:2,303,695 Joined:Jul 2005	Message Posted: May 26, 2007 10:44:38 AM Ignore Rajah Report Abuse If there is a God, and if he wants me to know something, s/he's got my phone number. I don't need a self-appointed go-between.
Pastafarian Champion Author Philadelphia Posts:2,111 Points:413,955 Joined:Jul 2006	Message Posted: May 25, 2007 11:11:32 PM Ignore Pastafarian Report Abuse Well, it's great to see you pop up, you old godless heathen, you. I hope you and yours are thriving and happy.
theco2 Champion Author Des Moines Posts:23,250 Points:3,373,500 Joined:Apr 2003	Message Posted: May 25, 2007 7:32:33 PM Ignore theco2 Report Abuse Hi Pastafarian! We haven't had internet at home, so I haven't been posting in HH very much. I do stop in, from time to time, though. I'm on GB every day, but usually it's only for a short time.
BuzzBomb Champion Author Honolulu Posts:24,451 Points:3,490,980 Joined:May 2003	Message Posted: May 25, 2007 2:46:17 PM Ignore BuzzBomb Report Abuse "I will not sit here and shove Jesus in your face" But you did anyway!
Pastafarian Champion Author Philadelphia Posts:2,111 Points:413,955 Joined:Jul 2006	Message Posted: May 24, 2007 5:57:13 PM Ignore Pastafarian Report Abuse theco2! Great to "see" you! Where ya been, buddy?
theco2 Champion Author Des Moines Posts:23,250 Points:3,373,500 Joined:Apr 2003	Message Posted: May 24, 2007 5:15:38 PM Ignore theco2 Report Abuse Yeah OK! If you say so.
Dad23 Champion Author Philadelphia Posts:5,000 Points:787,285 Joined:Sep 2006	Message Posted: Mar 25, 2007 10:49:20 PM Ignore Dad23 Report Abuse My misinterpretation. Sorry.